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Does Great Western Railway's Class 800 IET pass the test?

GWR 800005 at London Paddington on October 24 2017. PAUL BIGLAND.
  • This feature appeared in RAIL 841, published on December 6-December 19 2017. It is available digitally on Android and iPad.

Great Western Railway’s Intercity Express Programme Class 800s entered traffic on October 16, in a launch marred by technical failures - air-conditioning poured water on unsuspecting passengers on the first run from Bristol Temple Meads, and there was a failure in the system that allows the train to switch from diesel to electric (RAIL 838).

For critics of the trains, and of the project that created them, this was a goldmine. And more than a month later, the trains are still attracting suspicion.

Yet this is despite their ability to achieve 125mph on diesel power (which was suggested would not be possible), reports of journeys between London Paddington and Reading in under 20 minutes (using both diesel and electric power), and a begrudging acceptance that perhaps the seats are not as hard as expected.

But the Class 800s have a tough act to follow. Much like when a much-heralded football manager moves on, the pressure is always on the successor. And the same is true in the railway world.

That’s because the ‘800s’ are being introduced by GWR to replace the iconic High Speed Train (HST). Certainly no ‘modern’ traction has been embraced by the public like the HST, yet we must remember that the oldest power cars and coaches are now 41 years old. They have been re-engined in the past decade, and extensively refurbished. The GWR interiors offer little resemblance to that introduced in the mid-1970s, when British Rail was fighting the growth of motorway traffic.

The Hitachi Rail Europe trains were formally ordered in 2012, deals having been announced in 2009. Their progression towards entering traffic has been well-documented, but in short, they were supposed to be operating as electric trains to Bristol and Cardiff for their introduction, and so far they have only run as electrics between London and Taplow.

From January 2, it is hoped they will run as electrics to Didcot. After that, details and information are sketchy - the only commitment has been Rail Minister Paul Maynard’s recent claim in a Commons Written Reply that electric trains will serve Cardiff by the end of Control Period 5 (March 31 2019).

From October 16 until November 10, GWR only ran the ‘800s’ on weekdays, with two pairs of five-car sets in traffic (four units). The pool of trains initially available was 800005/006/008/009, but that grew with the acceptance of 800010-013 by early November - in time for GWR to double the number of dutie). A further two pairs were introduced on November 13, with Weston-super-Mare and Taunton added to the destinations the trains serve. More entered traffic after the December 10 timetable change, and again after January 2.

But what of the trains themselves?

RAIL conducted a train test on October 24, travelling on the 1145 London Paddington-Swansea as far as Bristol Parkway, returning on the 1256 Cardiff Central-London Paddington HST.

The train was formed of 800005 and 800006. Both are products of Newton Aycliffe in county Durham - the former was the first assembled at the site, and unveiled to the press on December 9 last year (RAIL 817).

The ‘800s’ tested were five-car sets, which together formed a ten-coach train. This is predominantly how the trains will work, although there are routes where they will split as GWR seeks to take full advantage of their flexibility. the company says no train will leave London in the peak shorter than a nine-car train.

On board, the first impressions are good. It is noticeable that First Class is not the same as Standard, and this is where we start the test. The rear coach of the formation, Driving Trailer Restaurant Buffet First Open (DTRBFO) 811005, is completely First Class with 36 seats (it also includes staff facilities and a preparation area). Pullman services will be provided from here, although the counter-style buffet (as per the HST has gone), with a trolley in First Class and Standard Class.

This vehicle also has a lower roof near the vestibule, as that is where the pantograph is housed. There is lighting around this. Beneath this roof is also where the disabled passenger accommodation is located. There are two spaces per train - both are in First Class, but they can also be used by Standard Class ticket holders.

Tables in First Class measure 25 inches across and 47 inches wide. There is complimentary WiFi, which was measuring 40MB strength as we departed two minutes late. The train is fitted with plugs, and it was noted how quickly this charged an iPhone 7.

The First Class seats are not leather (unlike the HSTs the ‘800s’ are replacing), due to fire regulations. They are firm, but not as firm as those fitted to a Class 387 or ‘700’. They measure 19 inches wide, 17 inches deep, and the seatback is 31 inches high. Armrests are 15 inches deep and 2 inches wide.

As the train departed, there was a low hum through the vehicle. Prior to departure, the noise reading on the decibel reader had been 63.4. There was no noise upon departure, and the indicator varied between 63.0 and 66.0 as we accelerated sharply. By Royal Oak, it indicated 64.6.

The ride quality as we reached line speed became lively, with my notes suggesting that the ride was “bouncing a bit”. This was not even when sat over the bogie.

Doors into the vehicle are single, rather than double as on a commuter train. They measure 27 inches wide and are controlled by buttons. Unlike many trains they are silent when opening.

One criticism levelled at the ‘800’ following its launch was that the sound of the pantograph dropping into its well as the train switched to diesel power at Taplow was audible. We made a point of listening for this, but it was negligible on 800005. For it to be noticeable, you would need to deliberately listen for it.

Walking through the train, the floor is raised in the three intermediate vehicles. This is where the diesel engines are housed on the trains, although there is no reduction in overall room.

The next vehicle in the formation is Motor Composite Open (MCO) 812005, which features both First and Standard Class accommodation. There are 96 seats in the coach, with the first 36 First Class and the remainder Standard Class. A partition separates the accommodation. There are four Standard Class tables in this coach.

The first all-Standard Class coach is Motor Standard Open (MSO) 813005, which has 96 seats, and here the extra three metres per vehicle becomes noticeable. IEP coaches are 26 metres compared with a 23-metre Mk 3. This allows for more capacity, and yet there is also more legroom per passenger.

The door into the vehicle is silent, but there are no signs regarding the controls. Indeed, signage is very poor throughout the train, something that has already been fed back to GWR by passengers.

Even regular travellers must learn these new trains, and until they do the unfamiliarity of what controls what will cause problems. A GWR HST has signage everywhere, and while that can sometimes feel cluttered, for passengers it can often be a Godsend.

There are eight tables per Standard Class coach, while all the airline seats have flip down tables. The latter measures 16.5 inches wide and 9.5 inches long. There is also an extension for laptop users, measuring an extra five inches.

Seats in Standard Class were another area where there were concerns. Even before the trains entered traffic, there was a belief that the Standard seats would be ‘hard’ and ‘small’, and not align with windows. (For the latter, GWR says there are more seats on its trains where passengers can see out of the window than on a Virgin Trains Azuma.)

As for the seat measurements, they are 17 inches deep, 18 inches wide and 32 inches high, yet due to the layout of the vehicle they do not feel high-backed. There is no sense of being crammed in, as perhaps there is on a GWR HST. The windows measure 27 inches in height.

Legroom from the edge of the cushion to the back of the seat is 13 inches in a Standard airline seat, and 15 inches in a priority seat.

Padding and the depth of the seat is another concern for many. The depth of the cushion around the shoulders is two inches, which drops to 1.25 inches in the back. The seat depth is 4.5 inches.

Noise in Standard Class is constant at 67.5 decibels, but actually drops to 58.5 as we climb over Reading viaduct. This varies dramatically from many underfloor-powered multiple units, which are often criticised for noisy interiors caused by the sound of the engine.

While there is a universal access toilet in the driving vehicle, in the MSO there are two near the vestibule opposite each other. Each toilet also has a baby-changing facility, and while there is a graphic to highlight this, there are no straps to hold the baby in position and nothing to distract the child. This is a disappointment, and also something that is lacking across many new fleets.

In MSO 813005, there are 92 seats, but the same number of tables remains, as do the leg measurements.

In Driving Trailer Standard Open (DTSO) 811005 there are 60 seats and only four tables. Also housed in this vehicle are the staff facilities.

Each coach has luggage racks located at the end of the saloon, while at the end of the vehicle there is a lockable compartment for stowing luggage and for cycles. Again, this did not appear to be well sign-posted.

Announcements on the train we used were manual, but each coach also has a screen above the door showing the calling pattern and next stop. However, without the digital announcements, this is not signposted. Had it not been for our knowledge of the route, we would have missed our Bristol Parkway stop where, due to platform extensions not yet being completed, the trains have to use Selective Door Operation (SDO). This needs remedying quickly, and is known to be one of the reasons for the delays the ‘800s’ are incurring in traffic.



Overall verdict

The Great Western Railway Class 800 is a good train. It is quiet and comfortable, with better legroom for those travelling in Standard Class. Its acceleration on electric is borderline spectacular, while its diesel performance appears better than predicted.

There are problems, but these can be rectified. Signage needs addressing, as does the use of the digital passenger systems.

The reduction in quality for First Class passengers is interesting, and it will be worth revisiting this at the next Great Western franchise, likely in 2020. The gulf between First Class and Standard Class on a GWR HST is marked and worth the extra money, whereas on an IEP it is harder to justify the expenditure.

The feeling of space in Standard Class is excellent, helped by the bright interior. The lights react to the environment, and are not seemingly as bright as those fitted to a GWR HST.

Overall, the ‘800’ represents an improvement for Standard Class users, and a reduction in quality for First Class users. 





Measurements, IEP vs HST

Measurement        HST  IEP

Legroom     12 inches     13 inches

Seat width (standard)      19 inches     18 inches

Seat length (standard)     17 inches     17 inches

Seatback height (standard)        35 inches     32 inches

Window height     24      27 inches

Decibel reading (average)         67.4   64.4

Decibel reading (highest) 77.0   66.0



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  • AndrewJGwilt1989 - 26/01/2018 01:38

    Most passengers have complained about the seats on these new trains that aren’t as comfortable as on the Class 43 HST’s that the Class 800’s and Class 802’s IETs are replacing. And the passengers who have made complaints about the seats to GWR went viral.

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    • Richard - 01/02/2018 14:30

      Good review, and Inlargely agree as a regular standard glass commuter. But have to strongly disagree about this being an improvement to the older trains in standard class. The seats are nowhere near as comfortable, and the lack of a fixed buffet car means that you need to wait up to an hour before being able to buy refreshments.

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    • Thomas - 19/02/2018 17:21

      I'm on one now - my first journey. I work an hour and a half every day on the run in and out of Paddington and I can tell you now that it's going to be a lot less pleasant. The seat tray is so high that typing on my laptop basically means reaching up to the keyboard. Because the arms on the seats are low and the tray high, I can't get any elbow support while I do that and my shoulders are aching already. The seat itself is not exactly comfy and is a definite step backwards from the HSTs, but not terrible (at least while relatively new). It does seem noisier and bumpier too. For now, I'll be avoiding these trains if there's any options (which from Swindon, there are).

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  • AndrewJGwilt1989 - 26/01/2018 01:42

    But overall. The GWR Class 800’s are very nice trains and are now in passenger service. Plus VTEC Class 800’s and Class 801’s are due to start passenger services from Summer this year. And Class 802’s on GWR, TPE and Hull Trains to start passenger services from next year.

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  • FrankH - 26/01/2018 12:20

    "They are firm, but not as firm as those fitted to a Class 387 or ‘700’" which are commuter trains. One of the more important things to me, comfy seats and legroom. Sounds like to travel over a hundred miles could be uncomfortable. A comparison to a HST would be more helpful.

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    • ClaireJ - 06/02/2018 11:35

      I've travelled on both recently, and I'm still not decided. The lighting is exceptionally bright and the seats are noticeably harder than before. Despite the mention of having power sockets for each seat, it does mean a heck of a lot of scrabbling around as they are underneath the seat and not at all visible.

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      • Martin Hedley - 16/02/2018 22:22

        After three trips to Bristol and back from Paddington on these new trains I now use SWR from Waterloo. The lack of soft furnishings, MI6 interrogation level lighting (which does not adjust) and the solid seats all contribute to a stressful trip. It was a pleasure that on one trip, the IEC failed and they put on an HST. After 40 minutes these seats are unbearable. Seat base is solid and too low for anyone over 5ft 8in. Yes more legroom, but you'll need to go for frequent walks. I have found 0% of passengers have a completely flat bum and completely straight back. The new Hitachi Shinkansen (similar design) just introduced in Tokyo is so much better.

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  • Martin - 17/02/2018 06:51

    I've made three round trips London Bristol, five were on the IEC and one in the HST (due to a failure of an IEC). These are the most uncomfortable long haul trains I have ever been on, anywhere in the world. I know on my five trips the lighting was so bright throughout it was quite stressful. The lighting never changes and would probably be useful for interrogations by MI5. Having taken two Virgin Pendolino trips right after the IEC experience highlighted how bad these new trains are. Due to the incredibly poor seats - very hard and virtually no contouring, every bump and grind in the track is transferred efficiently to the spine. After 1.5 hours to Bristol I got off feeling worse then when I drive the M4. Since then I have made two more trips to Bristol from Waterloo on SWR - much more comfortable even if a bit slower. Normally, I used the weekend First upgrade, but having sat down in the IEC first time thought twice. Then the conductor told me it was not worth it and wouldn't charge me because all he hears is complaints about the seats. Given that this same technology train has just be introduced on the new shinkansen in Japan, and that their seats are very good, I can only imagine GWR messed up on the specification.

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    • Mike - 23/02/2018 20:33

      Travelled on one of these 800s from Bath Spa to BTM today and after 10 minutes, I had pins & needles in my buttocks. If the seats weren’t so rock hard (and high - anyone with short legs will struggle), I’d say it was a nice train. Upon reflection, it was a bit like going from a Rolls Royce to a Rally Car! Not so good for long distance commuters and I certainly wouldn’t want to go from Paddington to Penzance in it!

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      • Nik Lennard - 13/03/2018 09:32

        Modern rolling stock design is all about increased capacity and faster acceleration. That's the only way to meet current and projected demand. Yet the passenger seems to be forgotten in this process. Inter City routes cannot rely on a captive market to maintain passenger numbers - the traveling environment needs to be appealing. It seems farcical that new rolling stock appears definitively inferior to a 40 year old design.

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      • Simon S - 24/03/2018 22:50

        I could not agree more. Having been three times on these trains between Cardiff/Paddington, I found the seats quite dreadful; not only hard but badly shaped with almost no lumbar support. I finished up with an attack of sciatica after one journey, and, as you say a nightmare for anyone travelling the length of GWR territory. These seats will undoubtedly add to the burden of backpain in the UK which (apparently) already costs the UK economy £10 billion a year in total.

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  • J. Keppel - 18/03/2018 08:30

    I refute the claim that these trains are an improvement. I am a season ticket holder travelling daily from Kemble to Paddington. The new trains are certainly not more comfortable that the 125 trains. The seats are straight backed and rigid with no lumber support, with the armrests being much too low. Ergonomically the seats are nothing short of a disaster and I have never seen any as bad on an intercity train. I question whether the author really paid much attention to the practical side of his jolly out on the train being merely swayed by the shiny new exteriors. I wonder will GWR pay for the NHS bills of the poor travellers who are now sure to suffer from increased back and neck problems?

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  • Meg Prior - 10/05/2018 10:58

    Yesterday I travelled from Didcot to Paddington on the new commuter service. What agony! Seats like boards, feeling every bump along the way, I arrived home with severe backache completely exhausted. The Oxford Tube bus service is now an attractive alternative!

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  • Mass - 15/05/2018 15:25

    The most disappointing feature of these new trains is that the lights inside are awfully bright. I am epileptic and unfortunately this bars me from using this route altogether now, as sitting having micro-fits every few minutes is just too uncomfortable

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  • Proffesor Peter Stevens - 16/05/2018 10:55

    This 800 class train is truly one of the worst pieces of design that has been imposed on rail passengers ever. The concept of a hybrid train that carries both a large number of diesel engines, fuel tanks, exhaust and silencer systems, and electric motors, motor controllers, batteries, pantographs and massive high voltage wiring is absurd. Weight is needlessly high and energy usage is huge. The high weight means that bogie spring are excessively stiff, resulting in an appalling ride quality. Judging by other passengers comments this is unacceptable. My belief is that the relationship between spring rates and damper settings is way out of sync, ride quality is particularly poor either side of Didcot. When boarding an 800 at Swansea Station the diesel exhaust smoke rising from the motorised cars is truly dreadful. The poor design of the carriage side panels and inadequate insulation meant that, on one journey to Swansea from Paddington on a snowy winter's evening, it was impossible to use a window seat. The inner panels were literally freezing cold. The floor mounted heating channels blow warm (!) air over the inner panels so that the air is cold by the time it arrives at elbow height. The seats as described by all who have commented are ergonomically appalling, give me Ryan Air seats any day. The lavatory/wash rooms have recently had little stickers applied to tell passengers how to lock the door; numerous times I have seen the acute embarrassment for both occupant and new arrival when the door opens when the outside button is pressed. The wash basin is far too shallow and the water jet miss directed; the wet floors in all those lavatories that are actually in working condition, and sometimes wet trousers attest to this design shortcoming. The soap dispensers constantly drip the bright red soap that in many of the lavatories stains the cheap SMC sink moulding, giving the impression that someone has bled to death earlier in the journey!

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  • Dr David - 24/09/2018 18:00

    I concur with the report. Standard class is excellent. Seats feel wider in standard. First class is frankly disappointing. Passengers pay a premium price for these tickets but get a much less than premium service.

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  • Simon - 19/10/2018 21:57

    These trains are a disaster. Literally billions are being spent upgrading the service to South Wales and the result is actually much worse than what it replaced. Uncomfortable, noisy, juddery, badly lit, late and slow. The Megabus is actually more comfortable and 10% of the price. Heads should roll.

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  • Barrie - 26/10/2018 09:47

    Further to the review above and other comments, having travelled once on the new train, i have one word for the seats - aweful, the most uncomfortable seat i have ever sat in on any form of public transport - our local bus around Swindon has more comfort and they are nearly 15 years old! As a person of very meagre proportions, i require a degree of softness in my seating and this falls short. When you consider the money that has been spent on these new trains I would have expected some degree of luxury; what were Hitachi thinking? Think i'll stick to National Express for my occasional London Visits.

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  • BernardH - 07/09/2019 12:47

    First time on an IEP on the 10:30 from BTM last Thursday, and first impressions not favourable I’m afraid. On the plus side, there are more facing bays around tables than the HSTs, and there do seem to be less seats with restricted window views, although the two bays in the DTRBFO with no windows at all are symptomatic of the general reduction in quality in first class. Compared to what you get for the extra money on the West, East and Midland Main Lines, it really isn’t worth it. On the other hand, the partition between the classes on the MCO is a welcome improvement on the Meridians. Vibration and noise from the engines is noticeably better than a Voyager or Meridian but so it should be, the vehicles are new after all. Let’s see how things develop as the engine mounts wear. For me, however, the biggest step backwards is the lack of through access between the units on a 2x5 formation. Just as on Virgin WCs Voyagers, passenger distribution is adversely affected compared to a properly through-gangwayed train; on Thursday, the rear unit was heavily loaded from Temple Meafs while the front was probably half empty until Swindon, with no means for passengers to move forward to find vacant seats. To make matters worse, it was announced soon after leaving Bristol that there would be no catering facilities in the rear part of the train due to staff shortages, another issue well known from coupled Voyager operation over the last 16 years or so. I understand that part of the justification for short sets is the requirement for portion operation to serve the “thin ends” of routes, but there are downsides which should have been taken into consideration. Overall, My opinion is that the 8xx design continues the general trend of dumbing down of passenger comfort and facilities we have seen over the last 30 years, but they do have some good points. Maybe in 2060 we’ll be mourning their passing and criticising their successors in just the same way.........,

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  • Phil - 05/10/2019 21:37

    The bike space , a glorified broom cupboard however is inadequate and clearly not designed with real bikes in mind. It's a nightmare to try and fit a bike in, being far too narrow , and hopeless if a bike is already in there. If you are disabled or have weak or limited upper body strength / movement it's a non starter. Labelling of bike carriages from the outside is also poor to non existent,.

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    • Paul - 25/12/2019 16:45

      Lots of references to how the GWR seats compare unfavourably with those installed on the latest Shinkansen trains that are closely related to the 800s. I’ve only been in a GWR 800 once and did think the seats felt like a bit of felt had been glued to a hard plastic shell. No cushioning at all. The LNER Azumas are slightly better but not much. Looks like GWR went for the Popular Plus, LNER chose the L and Shinkansen got the Ghia spec!

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  • Stefan Antoniuk - 09/02/2020 22:14

    I've traveled a lot on the 802s. The seats are appalling! Crippling on along journey in standard and little better in first. On board service in standard is woefully inadequate as is large luggage stowage. Rough riding at high speed is really bad, noted especially on my journeys in first. ordinary toilets cramped. I see no improvement over their predecessors at all other than having faster acceleration. Lots of probs with seat reservation indicators even when supposedly working, gtoo.

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  • Barrie Ainge - 29/05/2020 20:50

    I had the "pleasure" of using the 800 last year - 2019 - and I can honestly say they have the most uncomfortable seats of any form of public transport I have ever sat in, they are simply awful ! I travelled from Swindon to Paddington and by the time my journey ended, I had dull lower back ache. The old 125 was 10 times better. They are rock hard,too upright and too short, our local 15 year old bus is more comfortable. Ok they are light and airy and have all mod cons but everything is negated by those seats! I simply cannot believe that GWR expect people to pay these exorbitant fare prices and travel in such discomfort. Could it possibly,just possibly be that they are designed for people who are...ahem..slightly on the larger size who simply can't tell the difference? No, perish the thought..For my occasional trip to London i'll be sticking with National Express - much cheaper and fitted with proper seats, not park benches.

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